Season 10, Episode Six December 8, 2024

SPEAKER_03 0:02

This is the Listening Tube.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Hello. Thank you for putting your ear to the listening tube. I'm your host, Bob Woodley. On this episode, we'll hear about the demise of local news, diversity in the 1870s, and I'll have a chat with a woman who can probably tell you why you do that.

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But first, Not the Headlines.

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This week, Not the Headlines is also a Let's go back through the listening tube. Because our story starts in 1793. New York City's first daily newspaper, the American Minerva, is established. Its entire title is The American Minerva, Patrons of Peace, Commerce, and the Liberal Arts. It lasted for 744 issues over three years and later became the commercial advertiser and eventually the New York Sun, which ended production in 1950. The first issue of American Minerva called for a daily paper, pointing out that the public's thirst for information cannot be satisfied by a monthly magazine or a weekly publication because of what it called the magnitude of political events and the public being impatient of delay. An advertisement in the first edition promoted a book that showed labor by free men instead of slaves was more productive by providing facts and calculations. But my first question remains: what is a Minerva? I'm going to look that up.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

He's gonna look it up. He's really gonna do it. I want the truth! You can't handle the truth.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Huh. Britannica adds, the goddess of handicrafts, the arts, and later war. But I'm going to stick with the Miriam Webster definition because it was Noah Webster, yes, the same Noah Webster who wrote the dictionary, who founded the American Minerva newspaper. I guess Mr. Webster figured, well, I have all these words now. I might as well figure out how to put them to work. By now you might be thinking, yo, Bob, when are you gonna get to the not the headlines part? Well, since then, we've found other ways to put our words to work, this program being one of them. The dissemination of information has become so widespread and fragmented that it's difficult to determine which sources are trustworthy. At the same time, the consolidation of news sources has been detrimental to the freedom of viewpoints through censorship and trend algorithms. The need for daily newspapers is more evident now than it was in 1793. The problem is small, independent news gathering companies can't make a living from it. Our need for immediacy at our fingertips doesn't allow enough time to dig through a story. Reporters on the ground have lost the support of the economic structure of information dissemination. There's so much information to be had that there's very little value to any of it. It's simple supply and demand. Yet, while studies show the most accurate news reports are made by local news gathering media, the local reporters are the ones who are being eliminated from the media landscape. Here's how it's being done. Larger media companies buy up the properties. All of them have local reporters in cities all around the country who are freelance journalists, or maybe work for one of the few remaining locally owned newspaper or radio groups in the country. Hundreds of reports might be sent into the network headquarters every day, where it's heard or viewed, and reviewed and approved or not approved for wider distribution. Ultimately, only the stories that are created with the correct viewpoint are allowed through. The bottom line is that the local gumshoe, while still having a place in the chain, doesn't really have a home anymore because daily newspapers are disappearing from the American media landscape. It's all because of consolidation and cost cutting. A study released in October says the United States has lost 60% of its journalists since 2005. Particularly hard hit is the state of Illinois that, in the same time frame, lost 86% of its journalists. The demise of local news gathering in Illinois is so bad that the state government has passed a bill that will provide $25 million in tax credits to local news organizations beginning next year. Only a state run by Democrats would provide taxpayer money to the media. Believe me, that $25 million isn't going to the reporter on the street who's willing to dig for the truth and tell a story that matters to the local people and beyond. In Illinois, it'll be distributed to the left-leaning or progressive content creators who tow the company line. With so many independent sources, including this one, the definition of local media really has no clear boundaries. There is one other state that, according to WBEZ, offers tax credits to local news outlets. New York. No surprise there. For as important as local news is, it's just as important that the government isn't paying for it. You have to worry that the government that's paying you might want to have some control over what you say. But it's not just the little guys who are suffering from the imbalance of information supply and demand. Even the king of information dissemination, the Associated Press, asks me for a donation every time I click on a link to an AP story. The Associated Press used to be able to sell their services to radio and television stations and newspapers, providing them with content for their newscasts and publications. Now nearly everything goes straight to the consumer who rarely has to pay a penny for it. America needs to find a way to make accurate information a commodity again. Until then, we'll just have to keep looking for the needle of truth in the haystack of information overload.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Let's go back through the listening tube for this week in history.

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This week in 1872, in Louisiana, Pinknet Venter Stuart Pinchback becomes the first serving African American governor of a U.S. state. Mr. Pinchback was born in Macon, Georgia. His father was a slave owner and his mother a slave, but he was born a free man. That doesn't mean he didn't work on a plantation because he worked on his father's plantation in Mississippi. When Daddy died, his mom took him to Ohio to ensure his continued freedom. Pinchback moved to Louisiana during the Civil War when New Orleans was occupied by the North. He became one of the few black men to become Union Army officers. After the Civil War, he stayed in New Orleans, according to Wikipedia, and became active in Republican politics. He was elected to the Louisiana State Senate in 1868. He replaced the also black Louisiana lieutenant governor who died. Then the governor was impeached. PBS Pinchback became governor, if only for 35 days. By the mid-1880s, he moved his family to Washington, D.C. to avoid increasing racial oppression in Louisiana, the state he once led.

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The listening tube will return at the speed of sound. Contact the listening tube by calling 570-601-1101 or email thelistening tube at outlook.com.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

When I was a young sergeant in the Air Force, I had to take a course on preparedness, and as class speaker, I had to write a speech about it. I don't remember the whole thing, but the first line was From the first time primitive man recognized a thundercloud and took shelter, the realization that preparedness is the key to survival became permanently etched among the lessons of history. Afterward, some officer told me that line made the hair on the back of his neck stand up, so that was cool. But in order for the thundercloud to be recognized, there had to be some research. Somewhere, somebody made note of the dangers of water pouring from the sky and bolts of lightning striking the ground. Then somebody else learned from them, and so on and so forth until today. We not only recognize the thunderstorm, but we now know what causes them and even when to expect one. All thanks to research. My guest this week is a researcher who gets paid to do research on people and products. Asil Abu Hantash spoke with me from her home in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia about research and how we can all benefit from doing it. Practically all of what I talk about on this program takes a lot of research, be it current events or history or learning about my guests, so that I may ask pertinent questions. And I'll argue that I may have learned more in the three years since I started doing this program than I learned in the ten years prior to that. Do you think people do enough of their own research?

SPEAKER_00 12:29

In in what context exactly? Because the general answer is no.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Okay. But should people take a more active role in learning things on their own rather than just taking somebody else's word for it, like a researcher's boss?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

I agree definitely. They should do their own research. They should do their own it's a conclusion thing, right? So you read this research and you say, okay, Bob Asil uh have said this about marketing or user research in general, right? But then it's a perception thing as well. Like it it might change in the next six uh months, it might change in the next six years, and you have to keep updating yourself and researching this the things that you are interested in, or even the things that you aren't interested in. Like the world is full right now, and information is right on your fingertip. It's a quick Google search, right? You you type in the keywords and a lot of things pop up. So definitely, yes, they should do their own research and not take their word for it because some people are biased and some people are not biased, and it's just the data skews to whatever you have in your mind as a researcher. It's inevitable that the data skews to whatever you want at some point in time because this is what you understand or you perceive either from marketing research or the user. So, yes, they should definitely, definitely do their own research.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Now, research has certainly gotten a lot easier with the advent of the internet and the world wide web. When it first came out, it kind of reminded me of the library in ancient Alexandria, which uh was said to have to hold all the world's knowledge that that they knew at the time. Unfortunately, burned down. But now we have that again. Is that equivalency fair in your assessment?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Not really, in my assessment, as a SEALs assessment, because right now information is on the fly, as we said, and there are so much misinformation on the internet. Uh, I think the Library of Alexandria had like their own scholars which were dedicated into finding the truth and actually writing it down for history. And as you said, unfortunately it's burnt down now. But the internet never sleeps, right? Once on the internet, always on the internet. So um, no, it's not equivalent, but it's equivalent in size. I agree with equivalent in size, but not equivalent per information.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

That's a very interesting and unique perspective, and I thank you for that. Now, research will certainly help you understand the facts and figures, but are there other benefits to doing research?

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Okay, I'll speak from user research perspective because this is where I specialize in my field. It definitely opens your mind up to perspectives of behavioral psychology and cognitive psychology in human beings and how they interact with technology more. So, as uh technology advances, as you can see, like every single six months we have something new coming up. And it's it's just fascinating and a little bit intimidating to be honest. Like, I'm afraid of technology right now. Like the more I research about it and the more I see how users uh interact with it, it's extremely like intimidating to me. So it's it just it opens the field into looking at okay, there is data, definitely, there is always data. But there is also the aspect of behavior versus expectations now. Like I want to buy something from Amazon, right? My expectation is that Amazon has to give me the recommendations of what I want to buy. And that immediately is a behavior for for the user. And if you don't understand the psychology of the user where they expect things on their fingertips right at within three seconds, then it's a no-show for Amazon. Like Amazon will will literally drop from the market. It's not only data and statistics and all that, it's also expectations versus behavior. And to me, as a user researcher, how users actually interact with this with this data and statistics.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

You primarily focus on user research, but what kind of research do you most enjoy?

SPEAKER_00 17:10

I actually do enjoy user research so much, particularly talking to users, like going into the field and actually observing them in their natural habitat and their natural environment and how they interact with not only the technology that we're building here, but also their actual like distractions in their workplace. So, for example, he would be typing up something on an email and then he'll be distracted by his phone, or they'll be distracted by the rubric's cube or something. I just love observing and shadowing uh the people and just seeing how their psychology or their behaviors influence the way they lead their lives throughout the whole day. Like I remember we had like this whole field trip uh to a university, and the students were the most fascinating subjects I've ever seen. Like you should see them going to get grab coffee and then running off and rushing off to their classes and so on. So I love this research. I love field research where I'm just immersed with my subjects. Not that they know that they're subjects, sorry for them, but I'm just immersed with my subjects and I'm just watching them. So this is my favorite kind of research, just observing.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

You certainly, yeah. Uh no, I think a lot of people when they think of research, they think of looking things up in books or at the library or in old newspapers, or certainly on the internet, on Google, or whatever other kinds of search engines you might be using. But your research seems a little bit different in the respect that you're getting it firsthand. You're the one actually finding the information out, not researching it later. So, how does that differ from someone who does my kind of research, like like looking things up?

SPEAKER_00 19:02

So it doesn't really differ in a sense that either you get it for us in the field, we get it real time, right? And we get like the honest reaction of that moment. So, for example, if they're angry, we know they're angry right now. But anyone who can write an article while they're angry, it wouldn't translate the same way. You get me? Like they can write an article, you can read it, their emotions aren't there. So their behavior while writing is not observant for you, the one who's reading the article on the internet, for example, or making desktop research. So that's like the main difference where you capture their behavior and emotion and perspective immediately on the spot. And we can like take a picture or take something like that. And it translates a bit more because it's different, right? It's a perspective thing. The moment you understand that it's anger, the whole meaning changes. And the moment you understand that it's a happiness, the whole meaning changes as well. So the context is what differs, I think. From my perspective, that's the only thing that differs. Otherwise, it's all the same information if it's unbiased, it's all the same information, and you can get it both ways. It's just in real time, with real emotions, with actual context that about what's happening right now in the field.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

That's certainly fascinating. That adds another perspective to it that I hadn't considered. Now, does the data show that creating a user-first product is enough? What else needs to happen for that product to be successful?

SPEAKER_00 20:39

So it's enough to make the user come back, but it's not enough to market the product, right? Or the service. Uh, it's not enough to uh write the business of the product or the service. So you have you have three like three inter interacting things here, right? You have the user research, you have the marketing, and then you have the business or the product of it. And as long as the business foundation is stable and the product is sorry, the research is uh like user-friendly and the product is user-friendly, and then we go to marketing where we market it to people and say, come come find us. You have to find us because we have what you need to achieve your goal. So I believe research is not enough. It's also a marketing and a business thing to do, but research definitely helps in understanding, like making the business softer, you know, like we can or making the marketing softer in a sense. Like the user wouldn't understand our jargons, right? But they'll understand their own language. And this is where research comes in. So it's like a triangle, a holy trinity kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

So then the answer is no. Just building uh for a user first product is Not enough. There's a lot more that goes into that. Even though it may be the best thing since sliced bread, so to speak. If people don't know about it, then they don't exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

It's not usable. If the if the if the users don't know about it and people don't use it, then it's not usable. And what else is there to do? So yes, no.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

I I am reminded of uh, you know, uh in the dentist's office, they have the light that hangs above your head so the dentist can see what what he or she is doing. I saw one that on the on the arm of it it said gravity assist. And I thought, pretty much everything on the planet is gravity assist, is it not? But somebody thought that it would be a good idea to write that on the side of it as a selling point. So was that research that resulted in that those words being written on the side?

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yes, I think so, because it grabbed your attention, right? It made you think, it made you see it from like as you said, everything is gravity assessed in in your whole in our whole life. But then it it was something that was outside the norm for you because gravity is something that's in the back of your mind, you know it's there, and then suddenly you see those words, gravity assessed. So it it caught your eye, it made you look, it made you think, it made you come back and look at it twice. So, yes, definitely. Research, research did that. It's at some extent. Okay, and someone very smart.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Well, I don't I it it sounded kind of stupid to me, but somebody thought it was smart. It's like uh pretty much everything is gravity assist. So now it's it said that a person's perception is their reality. If that's your experience, then what's your perception, even though it may not align with the majority or the truth? How often how often are our perceptions wrong? And what do you have data about that?

SPEAKER_00 24:13

I have data from the researches that I have conducted. And so far I've been in like five companies, and in each and every research I've gone conducted, I've realized that 60% of the user's perception is wrong. And it's not necessarily because they are wrong, it's just they chose to focus on something in particular, and their selective bias just focused on that, that they did not see the details around it. Like when when you play, when you replay a video, like for example, right now you'll replay this video and you'll realize something in the background, right? Or you realize something about the way I'm moving or something that I'm wearing or something. But right now you're focused on me and you're focused on, for example, the way I'm speaking, you know? So right now your perception is not 100% correct. And this is what I found like 60% of what we perceive is not correct in in the sense of our minds used to focus on one selected thing that is like the goal of what's happening right now, and then we process the other information later. And it's it's scary and fascinating, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Well, yes, it is scary and fascinating. I'm not surprised at the results of your research that 60% of our perception is incorrect. What can an individual do to change their perceptions to what is correct? Or I work in the radio business. A lot of people say, oh, nobody listens to the radio anymore. Because there are so many other other options out there now. But the fact is, 90% of Americans listen to the radio every day. But you can't you can't get people to believe that if they don't already believe it. How exactly how can those perceptions be modified if not changed?

SPEAKER_00 26:17

It goes back to behavior versus expectations, right? You expect that most of the people don't listen to the radio, okay? But then once you um once you realize that, you start unconsciously perceiving the radio in a in a cafe, for example, okay, and everyone there is listening to it because it's on. And you'll and you'll think, okay, the radio's there, and everyone, everyone here, 50 people are listening to it. And then you move out of it, you move out of the cafe, you go down to let's say you took an Uber, and the Uber has the radio on, and you're suddenly, oh, okay, he is listening to the radio, and I'm listening to the radio as well because I'm I'm in the car with him right now. And it's because you started thinking that that you started perceiving, oh no, a lot of people are listening to the radio. Not necessarily the people in my community that are listening to the radio right now, but there are people around the world that do listen to the radio. And it's just a natural process of slowly integrating this uh thought that you have to be open to it, you know? You have to be open that, okay, my community doesn't listen to the radio. 90% of the people I know don't listen to the radio, but other people could listen to the radio. And it's just a thought process of accepting that what you believe may or may not be true, or may or may not be uh may be wrong. So it's it starts with you in your brain, and then it's slowly you slowly start noticing it uh around you on the streets.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

My my follow-up question is should people be concerned that 60% of what they perceive is incorrect? How are we surviving with with that high probability of of incorrectness?

SPEAKER_00 28:13

You're surviving because your brain knows what you need to survive, so you focus on it. Like your psychology or your brain understands that right now, for example, my brain knows I'm thirsty. So I'm just going to reach to my water bottle, irrelevant to whatever is around the water bottle. Okay. And I'm gonna take a sip of water and that's it. That's all I need. And then when I bring, when I finish the survival mode of me being thirsty and I want a water, I might notice the flowers beside the water and be like, oh, how sweet. The flowers are blooming today. You get what I mean? And then I go back. So it's 60% like the flowers were irrelevant to me at this point because my survival or my brain says, I want water, I need water. So it's the same thing. You're walking from point A to B, and all you're thinking about, I need to be safe. Understand that it's an ecosystem around you, it's not just point B. Everything around you moves with you. So that might be that might help.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

What areas of re of research are still out there that need a lot of digging through? What if you if you just wanted to go down a rabbit hole on a topic, or where would be some places to get totally lost?

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Artificial intelligence, most probably. This is like the my most explored area right now. Like, how does it help? And will it replace us? And what's going to happen in 10 years? And what's going to be like what's going to be the rabbit hole of artificial intelligence in 10 years? You get what I mean? Because it's it's expanding at a very, very high rate. Like right now we have we have voices. Like he they can literally imitate your voice. And I still, it boggles my mind until this until this day. Like, how are you, how does that work? So artificial intelligence is definitely one area of research that is like you should go down the rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Is that an area of research that needs to be researched more? Are there other areas of research that maybe we've only scraped the surface and a lot more digging needs to be done?

SPEAKER_00 30:31

For us in user research, like user-centered research, we are trying to dig into the area of how does artificial intelligence influence your decision making throughout your day. So, right here in Riyadh, for example, I see it, my colleagues see it, everyone sees it. If we want to write a message, we go to Chat GBT to write us a message. And we're just trying to understand why this influence of artificial intelligence is writing me a message, which is something like, hey, how are you? I need one, two, three from you. And we're just trying to understand why this is influencing our users to use artificial intelligence in doing everyday tasks that were easily performed before, but now we're so reliant on ChatGBT being the motivator of our lives. Is it because of the emojis? Like literally, one of my colleagues were like, I think it's the emojis. I think it's the emojis uh Chad GBT uses. And I'm like, no, there's no way it's the emojis. It's it's more than that. So this is this is one of the like this is one of the focus areas right now that we as a team are are looking on. Like the behavior versus the expectation of Chad GBT and how our users are using it.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

No, I haven't used uh artificial intelligence myself, although it's been recommended. I've seen some of the results of artificial intelligence. I've had clients who have used it to write their commercial scripts for the radio commercials. And what I've discovered is it needs a lot of work. There's I've never been handed a script that said, oh, this is perfect. There's I I always have to change a lot about it.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Yep, yep, yep, yep. I agree with you 100%. Um we even us as like people who are like we're writing reports, right? I kid you not. They start the Chat GBT started the report perfectly. Halfway through, it started contradicting itself with facts about something and something else. And unfortunately, my colleague submitted that to our C level as is. And we were in, we were in a pickle, like literally, we were scrambling the whole time. Get that report back, don't let anyone see it. Please, but you're right, you're absolutely right. It's double the rework that you would have done by taking one hour out of your day and just writing it yourself. So this is why we're trying to understand like why is this influence? Like they know, they know it's bad and they know it's wrong, but they still go back to it and they still make make it seem like a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

So, yep.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

What's the most surprising thing you've ever discovered while doing your research?

SPEAKER_00 33:22

That people are much simpler than we look. Like I know there are so many uh researches on cognitive science that humans are complex human beings with complex emotions, with complex uh thoughts, so on and so forth, which is true. I'm not I'm not denying that. It's true. But when faced with a problem or a solution or a goal we want to achieve, we want the quickest, fastest, and the easiest way to get to it. And in that we are very simple because we all think the same way. Like, what's the fastest way to get me from point A to point B? We just want to get our tasks done, honestly. We just want to get our tasks done. So, yeah, that's well great.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

So that we know we we use the tools that we have available to us in order, you know, to get to that goal as quickly as possible. Exactly. It seems to make sense, regardless of how complicated we think we are.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

I I agree.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

I agree. Now, have there been any things you couldn't find out no matter how much you tried? And if so, what type of topics were they?

SPEAKER_00 34:34

That I couldn't that I couldn't find no matter how much I tried. So at least in Saudi Arabia, okay, we religion is very integrated into our the culture, right? So whenever we do uh a prod uh a simple product or whatever, we usually try to make it as as integrated to the culture and the religion as possible, just to make sure that everyone understands that we're not doing something that's outside the religion or outside the culture, so on and so forth. So this is like the the hardest thing. Never found it, no, we we did find it, but after so many loops and going back and forth with official people that actually talk about these things just to make sure that this is actually like Sharia compliant in Saudi Arabia, so on and so forth. So this is like the hardest thing, just making sure that it's culturally appropriate for people to understand that the research is for them, not against them.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

What should people know about the research that's being done on them on us?

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Definitely. I agree 100%. You should know exactly what the research that's being done.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

What should we know? How can we do that?

SPEAKER_00 36:00

They should okay. First, the researcher has to have integrity to let you know. This is how you know. Like the researcher has to actually come up out front and tell you we're going to conduct the study because of something specific we're trying to find. So they have to give you the context of the study so that you can understand what's happening and what will happen. The second thing is they have to tell you the duration because some researches take one month, some researches take a full year, and you might stay with that researcher for this whole year. So you're just gonna see each other every single day. Good luck with that. Sorry about that in advance. All right. And then they'll have to tell you how is this going to benefit you as a person because you're giving them your time. They're giving you your time, right? You they have to tell you how they're going to benefit out of this at the very end. Whatever it is, it could be um materialistic benefit, it could be an environmental benefit, whatever it is. And lastly, and the most important is know that you can walk away. Like the moment you feel uncomfortable, you you have to know that you can walk away. You can say, okay, stop. Thank you so much. This is not going uh good for me right now. I need to walk away. And you can walk away without any consequences. This is something I tell my clients and my customers all the time. Walk away if you feel if you're feeling anything right now. It's fine. Just tell me I'm not comfortable. I want to stop, and we'll stop immediately. And this is the most important. Know that you can walk away.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

Based on your description of your observations earlier, observations of students, they didn't know they were being observed. So we're are are we being observed, our behavior is being observed all the time, is it not?

SPEAKER_00 37:51

True. And I'm sorry for my students, but true. True. But let me tell you one thing. They did not know that they were being observed. Uh, that's very true. But the moment we started, we wanted to publish that paper, we went over to that class and we told them, we observed you. Who wants to not have their name or their behavior be there? And three of them out of 20, three of them said, I don't want to be there. So we made sure to take their consent on publishing whatever we found through observing them. And they walked away. They said, I don't want to. We scrapped that data, we saved it, and we published the research as it is. So, yes, uh, you don't know that you're being observed, but as I said, the researchers should have the integrity to tell you, by the way, we're observing you, we want to use your data.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Is there a way for a person to opt out of all of that without literally just going off the grid somehow?

SPEAKER_00 38:52

So, unfortunately, I haven't found this way yet. So, my answer is no, unfortunately. You have to get off the grid for that to happen. And it's unfortunate, really, but at this point in time, you are so integrated with the technology that you can't live off the grid, unfortunately. If if you're going to take this decision, I applaud you. Please, please call me up, tell me how you're gonna do it, because I haven't found that yet.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you think are my interest, my I would be interested in knowing or the people who listen?

SPEAKER_00 39:32

I think what I want to tell like your listeners today, uh, first of all, thank you so much for coming in and listening. Second of all, try your best to understand why you do what you do. Because right now at this very fast pace, we're just going through the motion. And I'm just I just want to tell them try to understand why you do what you do, be intentional about what you do with everything. And I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful day.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

So just kind of slow down and be more deliberate.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Yes, be more deliberate because life is very fast, and just just take take a moment, smell the roses, and sip your coffee.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Thank you to Asile Abu Antosh for spending some time in the listening tube. I hope you enjoyed her insight and passion for her work as much as I did.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Slow down and you move too fast. You got to make the moment less just kicking down the couple of stones.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

The listening tube is written and produced by yours truly. Copyright 2024. Thank you for putting your ear to the listening tube. Support the show or text me from the homepage. I'm your host, Bob Woodley, for Val Ad Infinitum.