The Listening Tube with Bob Woodley Fear, Frisbees and Fences

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This is the listening tube. Hello. Thank you for putting your ear to the listening tube. I'm your host, Bob Woodley. On this episode, I'll have a conversation with Walter Harrison about how data is an integral part of our everyday lives.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

But first. Not the headlines.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

So the federal government is in its longest shutdown ever, and there's a lot of talk about what might happen. But even when there isn't a federal government shutdown, a lot of the talking heads on television screens and on talk radio and even podcasts spend a lot of time on hypotheticals. Everyone's trying to convince you that if the other guys win, we're headed into a worst-case scenario. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt once famously said, The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. Those words were spoken in 1933 in FDR's inaugural address. The country was facing never-before-seen circumstances as a result of the Great Depression. There are measures in place to try to prevent such an event from happening again, and so far we've been able to avoid another Great Depression. But that's not the point. The point is that the United States was in an awkward state and the president called for the cooperation of the population. Here's some of the context in the quote that many are familiar with, but have never heard the other words around it. President Roosevelt asked for and got the support of the American people and was able to accomplish a lot to turn the country around and bring it back to a state of prosperity. Our current president has asked for our support to again drag the country out of a depression of sorts, a depression of our economy, our patriotism, and our potential. There was a time when the country would support the president, whomever it might be, and that's what helped us continue to persevere. Instead, the opposing political party today always plays the role of obstructionist, preventing any progress in any direction. And the tool politicians use most is fear. The only thing we have to fear is. But they wrote the law that ends the subsidies at the end of 2025. So they're holding the country hostage until the Republicans agree to let them correct their mistake at the cost of a billion dollars. It seems to me that the Affordable Care Act has as accurate a name as the Inflation Reduction Act, which did nothing to reduce inflation.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

You can hang your hat on that.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

One of the reasons I asked my wife to marry me is because she had a dog that could catch a frisbee. I always wanted a frisbee dog, so I knew right away that I would marry this woman. And we did get married, and it was great, but then the dog died. But then we got another one, the same kind, a chocolate lab, and I raised it to play frisbee. Her name is Petra. The dog, not my wife. She's getting old now. Again, the dog, not my wife. And she's had trouble with her tear ducks since she was just a few years old. She's starting to lose her vision, and it would seem that her days of catching frisbees are over. It's sad because she and I really enjoyed our time playing frisbee together. We both enjoyed her leaping into the air, all 100 pounds of her, to snatch the frisbee out of the sky. It's a thing of beauty that brought us both a lot of joy. Plus, she knew she'd get a treat when we were done. Although she might not be able to catch a frisbee anymore, the saddest part is that she doesn't have opposable thumbs, therefore preventing her from simply throwing the frisbee back to me instead of having to run it all the way back to where I was standing. She would either let me take it out of her mouth or she would drop it on the ground for me to pick up and throw again. If she were able to throw it back instead of having to carry it back, she would know that I'm pretty good at catching frisbees too. I can catch it behind my back, between my legs, around the back of my head, like Andrew Dice Clay would smoke a cigarette. But Petra will never know because she doesn't have opposable thumbs. The listening tube will return at the speed of sound. Send email to thelistening tube at outlook.com. My guest today is a man who knows more about us than we do. Walter Harrison is the CEO of Who Came Buy, a location analytics tool. Walter spent some time in the listening tube from his home in Chicago. You specialize in data and marketing and keeping track of behaviors and things like that. So I guess the first thing I'd like to ask you is to what data do you attribute you and I having this conversation right now, considering we've never met until now?

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Yeah, absolutely. It's a data point. It really is. So ultimately, we all came from our own respective places in life, and we met on a you know a group that would introduce us because we're trying to go towards maybe similar directions by having an open conversation around data, religion, faith, the world, all that kind of stuff. From our perspective, though, when we look at data, much of life is like a circle. If I like basically saw your life, Bob, and I maybe let's say we geofence using location data, your life would look like this. If we were like 30,000 feet. It's like a big old circle. Every once in a while we'll see some offshoots, maybe go on vacation, maybe you visit a granddaughter or daughter or a son or something like that. You'll see some like verging out points, but typically it's like a circle. So even digitally, it's pretty predictive. Like using AI and our data today, I mean, we could predict behavior in like the 90th percentile.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Now, I I'm glad you brought that up, and that's a great analogy because I've always I've always considered that the the longer you live in one place, the smaller that circle gets. Does your data show that?

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Absolutely. Yeah, there's actually a lot of researchers at universities looking at this, looking at dating apps as well. Because dating apps actually are a good indicator of how people just grow. Like take an 18-year-old or a 25-year-old living in a small town in, let's say, Wisconsin or Michigan or something. How do they go from a small town to a big city? Meet someone, have a family, they have a family, and this is the progression of here in the United States of how people grow and move. And in the 1900s, we all literally lived on farms. This is how it was. Like I think like 85% of Americans live on farms today. Most of the population is centered around large cities and suburbs. And what gets us out there, it's relationships, jobs, and economic mobility. And what we try to show is that economic mobility is tied to really phones and companies, and companies are tied to people, and people are tied to education, and education is tied to families. It's this linear circle that goes all the way back to some small beginning somewhere in a town.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Now, if you move somewhere to a new place, say a new city or a new state, does that circle start out large and then gradually get smaller?

SPEAKER_02 10:29

So if an individual person moved to a new city, typically depends on why they're moving. Is it for work, is it for family, or maybe dad's job, something like that. Typically small at first, and then it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And we can start seeing that how these devices begin connecting. Maybe it's a church group, maybe it's a gym, maybe it's a little league soccer, something like that that allows these devices to begin. Oh, we're now doing potlucks and Halloween and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Your one of your primary interests is marketing. So are there places within those circles that we are more likely to go, other than our our job or our school?

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Yeah, we call these uh spaces really. So right now you have like multiple spaces. Typically, a home is a space, a workplace could be a space, and for people like you and I, where we potentially work from home sometimes, or space one and space two could overlap, it could be the same space. Or it could be a co-working space, a soho house, uh uh, let's say uh a we work, something like that. But there is a third space, actually, and it's one of the spaces Howard Schultz talks about, that's why he built Starbucks a place between home and work. And that is for us what we really care about. That coffee shop, that gym, that church. Maybe it's a like a lifetime fitness where you can work out and relax at the same place. Those are good jump off points for us in marketing to figure out how someone spends their time. It's a big predictor of what they'll be interested to purchase.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

You you forgot pubs. Um pubs. Yes. I think that's an obvious one, yeah. So of course, depending on your lifestyle and where you live. Um, but certainly uh people do spend time in bars and and uh local watering holes, I guess you could call them. Are there places where we used to go, but we don't go there anymore?

SPEAKER_02 12:31

It's a good question. Um, churches, actually. So churches are still quite popular. So there's three, I mean, churches actually uh an avenue that we care a lot about. So it's about 330,000 churches in America. That's a there's a lot of churches. I don't think people know how many churches actually exist. And that I mean, that's just under the Christian denomination and all the different variations of that. Um, you can look at synagogues, you can look at mosques, maybe these numbers just go up increasingly. You do see over time, and COVID clearly had a huge effect of this, um, a decline in the number of visits uh to churches over the years. So that's that's starting to decline, but it's also gone more digital because people are getting their church through YouTube and Instagram and TikTok and things like that. Those trends do change behaviors over time, and it makes like you can imagine a real estate company that owns that building being concerned, and a mortgage company that gave the loan to the church is concerned about that. So it does have trickling off effects. But churches would be one. Another one actually is gas stations. Because the advent of EVs, we are starting to see less people at traditional gas stations over time. And lastly, at movie theaters, movie theater visits, even post-COVID, even with all the big blockbusters that came out, are on the decline.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Now I'm glad you brought up the subject of COVID because certainly during that time, and it lasted about a year, I guess, we were encouraged to basically stay away from each other. Have we returned to our pre-COVID mobility or or are we still working toward that?

SPEAKER_02 14:14

So I think it depends what lens you look at it. I think the business community would still argue that we have not gotten back to a lot of companies, including my company and others, are not in the office five days week. I mean, pre-COVID in 2019, we were in the office every single day. But you know, I'm in Chicago, so the highways were packed, the trains were packed, you're walking, rain, sleet, or snow, you're in the office. I don't think we're still there. A lot of the companies are like hybrid now, so they're half there, half not there. So in the business community, I don't think we're actually there. Economically, though, on consumer spending and how much they're buying. Oh, yeah, we're we're definitely back and roaring, maybe roaring too much. It might be a concern. Um, but it just depends on what lens you're looking at.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Now, certainly the COVID pandemic did lend itself to us changing our habits, especially when it comes to shopping. We became more reliant upon online shopping. Now, as you're you collect data on how people move around, how has online shopping affected the amount of data you're able to accumulate?

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Yeah, it really depends on the purchase. Like, so clearly with Amazon two-day shopping or same day shopping, and then in Chicago land, you can get a few hour shopping. You can order something and be at your house in two hours. And stuff like that, that is just a game changer. There's really nothing that can compete against that. Now, when you start looking at for furniture or more high-ticket items, things like cars, grocery, unless you're in the city, people are still going to grocery stores or still actually going to look at multiple cars and looking at furniture and things of that nature. So that really hasn't shifted. It also depends on actual behavior. I was in a grocery store over the weekend. I went camping with my kids, and we went to this like really country high B in the middle of nowhere. And I saw a guy writing a check paying for his groceries. And I haven't literally haven't, I think I've seen that since I was like a little kid. So they talk about behavior that hasn't changed, but most of us are, you know, we're chat paying. That's how most people are purchasing these days.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Now I personally I try to carry cash whenever I can because uh a lot of places now charge a 3% surcharge for you to use a credit card to make a purchase with a credit card. So, you know, I think that's that's another thing that perhaps uh online shopping uh has has affected. I I know, or at least I suspect there are elements of our government, society, and business uh who want us to be more reliant on those electronic purchases. And that's why I carry the cash, because I just I think it's it can't be tracked. I can buy whatever I want with it, and I hope it stays that way for a while. Yes. Yeah, you and I, you and I both. Have you collected or analyzed any data about where delivery drivers most often go? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

So we don't really look at delivery, we do look at by brand, though. So we'll look at Uber, look at Lyft, we'll look at DoorDash, we'll look at Uber's um Uber Eats as well, and look at that and see who has market share. Clearly, Uber is just a clear winner. DoorDash also does exceptionally well. But once you're doing geofencing, you could clearly see in large cities and suburbs that those Doordash and Uber are definitely number like one and two on food delivery and just ridership in general. But we don't really look at where the driver's going necessarily.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

I'm disappointed because I was hoping you could tell me where my wife comes in on the list of getting stuff to leave.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You and me both, man. Like, I tell you what, it's it's almost uh addicting. You know, Amazon has a patent on that one-click checkout and on DoorDash, like they talk about if you can remove friction, right, with apps and digital, like people will purchase more. And I think that's just so true. One click checkout, hit one button, foods there, remove friction, and people's more money.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

And I agree, and I and I I do realize that they're trying to make it easier, but uh quite frankly, uh Walter, sometimes if I'm required to create another username and password, I'm just not going to do it.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

I oh absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

I already have too many of those. Exactly. And trying to remember them is sometimes a waste of time. When you analyze data about where we go, what else do you learn about us?

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Well, I think yeah, the key thing is this pattern of life. So, like we're all like in different avenues. Like, for example, if if I looked at a suburb of any large metropolitan city, you'd find people who are going in the office four or five days a week or three days a week, something like that. Are they going for lunch? Are they a regular Starbucks drinker? Are they Jimmy John subway people? Are they going to Chipotle or Kava or Sweet Greens? Like, how much are they spinning for lunch? How long are they driving in their car? Is it an Eevee or a gas car? Which time do they get off work? Or do they go directly home? Do they go to the gym first? Do they pick up kids? I mean, I you can go on and on and on and on and on. And as you begin subsetting consumers, you start figuring out there are different patterns of life by age, socioeconomic stuff. And it's all different and varied. And all in our opinion, we love it. We love the variation that exists between people all around this country. And if you're a marketer, if you're a brand trying to sell something to someone like you or me, you want to know exactly. Like we sell, let's say I'm making up an example, you know, the best salads to people who are commuting or people who have like an hour for lunch that'd be really, really quick. They can't sit down at a restaurant. This is who I'm looking for in any city across America. Like, great, you know, this is our job. We will find that person who wants to eat clean, has a busy job, male or female, and has a short period of time for the to purchase your salads. So knowing the pattern of life, knowing their background helps more qualify the business opportunity for our company.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Now, your company, who came by, uses geofencing to track where we go. Is that possible because we carry our phones everywhere we go and how our cars are linked to the internet?

SPEAKER_02 21:00

That's exactly why. Yeah. So we're all using a number of apps on our phones that typically these apps are free. There's typically an exchange. You can use our app, and but we're gonna collect data, and the cost is typically not free. We have to monetize it in some way. And someone like us will legally get access to it, anonymize it, and then try to do some type of analysis to figure out more about that consumer from a marketing perspective, but also always keeping their privacy in mind, front of mind.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Does turning off our location enabler actually prevent us from being tracked?

SPEAKER_02 21:42

That's a good question. So let's get technical for a second. Your phone, your iPhone, or your Android phone will collect location really in three ways GPS, Wi Fi, and cellular. So most of these apps that you're using, let's say you're using a mapping app or a navigation app, or you're using a dating app or A weather app. These are all GPS based. So you need your phone active, get a satellite signal, lock it down. It's pretty strong, know exactly where you're at. But you could turn that off. You could turn your location off. But ATT, T Mobile, your cell provider will still know your location, or your Wi-Fi provider, Xfinity, Comcast, whoever it is, can still know your location. So there's sort of three different points. And what we tell people is like, and I tell my friends and family this as well if you don't want location track, you can go into your settings, limit ad tracking, go through and see what apps have your location, and just limit it. And that alone will give you more privacy and not get your data out there in the ecosystem.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

But if someone really wanted to hide, they would just have to abandon their phone and their car. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 22:54

If you really don't want a trace at all, you don't want a smartphone. Go back to that flip phone, get a nice burner phone, uh, and you know, have a rotating number, use tons of VPNs, and just maybe you'll be off the grid.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

One of the examples on your website, whocameby.com, is for visits to Soldier Field in in your city of Chicago. Now, one would imagine that there are times when it's very busy, i.e., football season, and times when it's very lonely. Example, the off-season. What other types of places have wildly varying visitor data over the course of a calendar year? Seasonality.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Six Flags. It's a great example, right? Um, Six Flags actually begins there. They do this Halloween thing, which probably just ended. But I don't think you want to be on a roller coaster mid-December in Chicago. Um, so you definitely don't. So that has a lot of seasonality, a lot of beaches as well. You'll just see attendance begin dropping. Not in Florida, people still do beaches in Florida, but it's not 80 or 90 degrees year-round. So seasonality exists across multiple different verticals. The good thing about location data though is you can go back in time and start seeing, okay, how is my cold period this year versus the previous year? How is it relative to my competitors? Are they just having just a cold spell as well? And also back to churches, churches have seasonality during the summer. Most churches start be seeing that slump. And then we're coming to a point right now where churches start having their Super Bowl at Christmas. Like this is the biggest part of the year. This year and Easter are the best parts of the year for most churches. Um, so seasonality is baked in. I would say also back to bars and restaurants that do a lot of college football and football season, they're gonna start seeing some seasonality as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Are there other variables and or factors that affect people's movements other than seasonality? Oh, a ton.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yeah. I mean, like what's in town, like what restaurants are actually there, movies, like literally, what is the attraction draw? And people move based on other people. So they're typically not doing it by themselves, they're doing it within groups or within couples or within families. And all cities are are just large groups of friends and family. That's all they are. They're just millions of them. And if you begin isolating them and seeing what's going on, so for example, like we love doing Taylor Swift concerts, that's a great one. So we will geofense this Taylor Swift concert in Seattle. Uh, we'll do a Green Bay Packers game, um, we'll do something at Madison Square Garden and just start seeing people come from all over the world for a Taylor Swift concert or uh, you know, a Green Bay game or something like that. It's like, does that loyalty actually show? It it does. It definitely does.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

And that's I would imagine an awful lot of data to sift through. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

That's a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Now, obviously, if you're studying this data on a continuing basis, patterns emerge. Am I correct? What absolutely what kind of patterns do you look for? And have you been surprised by any patterns that maybe you weren't prepared to see?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah, well, see, the question that's a really good question. One of the things about patterns is like, what are you looking for? There's so many things in the data, but it's all about how you look at it and what if you're looking for it. If you're not looking for it, you're not gonna find it. The data is just so much. Um, so one of the cool things that we care about, let's think of a good example, is travel. Like how let's say we did O'Hare's or Chicago or let's say Dallas, Fort Worth Airport. Imagine you geofence the whole airport and you break it down by terminal. You start seeing, hmm, who has the best allegiance? Is it Delta? Is it United? Is it Southwest Hub? Is it American? All of that. And then I remember doing this, and like Southwest Airlines is a juggernaut. United is a juggernaut, and American in certain cities don't do so well. Like you start seeing like there's hub, like Chicago is a United hub as an example. We also have uh Southwest, and you start applying that logic across the country, you can start seeing, hmm, Southwest is doing really, really well. Americans doing well, but man, not a lot of people like Delta as an example. That's an opportunity for us to knock on Delta's door and say, hey, we geofense every major airport in the United States. We see allegiance all across the country, but you not doing so hot in this country or in this city, you should work with us. We can start marketing the people who use American airlines. Maybe they don't have points or something like that. You can give them some discounts and we can get to shift behavior. And that's kind of the sweet spot with data is like you start finding people who have allegiance and potentially get them to shift behavior over time.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

So you have then been able to use the data that you collect and analyze to affect change? Oh, absolutely. For sure. And that is your goal, correct?

SPEAKER_02 28:20

That's our goal. And it's our typically the goal on behalf of our customer or our client. Like they have a product or service they want to get in front of consumers, a specific consumer, and we need them to either try this product out or shift behavior.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

How do marketers and corporate thinkers use the data you collect?

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Typically, they use it for targeting. So they're some are doing it for analytics, they're just looking at it, they're trying to enable it with their own data set. Others are just taking the data, connecting it to Meta in Facebook or Instagram and WhatsApp or TikTok or Twitter, and they're serving ads, meaning I Geofense Soldier Field, there's a Bears game, Bears versus let's say Casey, and we're trying to find CC fans that live in Chicago. Let's do the geofense, and then we're gonna advertise to those people specifically. And then you get on Instagram, you start seeing ads for you know Casey jerseys or Casey hats or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Okay, well, that's that's very interesting. Now, when when a company uh employs you to gather data for them, do you just give them raw data or do you also provide observations or conclusions about that data?

SPEAKER_02 29:40

So typically we're not providing any conclusions unless we're specifically specified to do so. And that is it could be a you know a big question like what are we trying to be conclusive about? Generally, we're kind of doing a connection for them, sending that data to their advertising platform, enabling them to do the campaign. But we've already kind of got that raw material, got that exact audience we're looking for, and we can actually do the campaign from there.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

How often or how rare is it for data analysis to be correct when it comes to the desired result? Do sales increase? Are predictions accurate? Are we good at using the data we collect?

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Yeah, data, just like anything else, has a lot of noise in it. So there's parts that are like truths and untruths. For example, if I geofence Soldier Field, you're gonna get a lot of people who work there. They're not a Casey fan or a Bears fan, they're just at the concession stand. Or it's a biker who just like rode by because Lakeshore driver's right there looking over the lake. How do you take out these false positives? And that's where the analytics comes in. Doing the geofencing of the data is one thing. Then do the analysis to remove the noise. And even when removing the noise, it is double, triple, quadruple checking the data to make sure it is inspired, you know, in fact, there. Like, where did this device originally arrive from? They're at Soldier Field for a KC game. Do they live in Chicago? What part of Chicago? What did when was the last time we've actually seen this person? Or did this phone just come on the scene, let's say then and there, and we haven't seen them before? So it can be correct, but there is a lot of analytics and analysis to make sure it's done correctly.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

I read a scary story one time about how data is being used to market, and it it was uh I'm I'll I'll try to summarize it, but basically, a father found out that his 16-year-old daughter was pregnant, not from her, but because coupons for her for diapers and such were uh had begun showing up in their mailbox addressed to her. And one of the reasons they knew she was pregnant before her father did was because she had recently switched from a scented to a non-scented skin lotion. So how deep does this data go? And is it is it being used for nefarious purposes or is it just for marketing?

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Yeah, it's a good question. So that story you're talking about was Target. This was Target 15, 18 years ago. The woman was purchasing a bunch of things, and like Target, they gave you all these receipts for discounts, and then she got the stuff in the mail. And Target's analytics department in Minnesota, where they're actually based, was world famous about this, and there was like a potential lawsuit as well. Um, but they didn't do anything wrong. That's they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do. They try to give you relevant material based upon what you purchase. It is no secret that if someone switches, you know, scented ore, they start drinking all these certain types of teas, they start changing their size and clothing, especially if you already have history on that consumer, as like as Target obviously does using the target red card or the cartwheel app, they can be extremely predictive. This is predictive analytics now on like what is to come. And I don't think they did anything nefarious at all. I think they just did exactly what they're supposed to do, which is trying to get you to come by, come back, and become a repeat customer. Um, but to answer your question, I think it's like anything else. That famous saying, you know, the technology can light a city or create a bomb, right? It's just all about how you use it. And our location data and data in general can do a lot of good. And I think it has. We even have a part of our company where we do data for good. So we're geofencing to help food deserts and low-income people to help them. And that thing is data for good, but it can also be used for a nefarious reason. You don't want a foreign agent getting access to certain data sets and using that data against us. So I think for us, we use it for the right reasons. We're getting it compliantly, we use it compliantly, but data can also tell stories that you did not expect to tell.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Yeah, obviously that father was quite surprised uh how that data kind of circled around and and slapped them upside the head there. Uh to put it one way. Uh, what should people know about data collection that most of us don't realize or even think about?

SPEAKER_02 34:41

I think the first thing is if you're using a product today and it's free, it's not free. There's a cost, and you're just not seeing that cost clearly. It's typically in exchange for advertising being shown to you, and advertisers only want to advertise to someone who's relevant to them, meaning they need to know more about you. So there's typically a data collection. It's the reason why Meta has you know three billion people who use their products every single day. Whether like people spend more time on TikTok than they do doing anything else. It's an exchange. Those products are free, but you're getting something in exchange, you're getting advertised and entertained, but you're also getting your data taken from you. And as long as you're happy with that exchange, I think no harm, no foul. I think it's for those who are like, I don't necessarily think I want to be in this exchange anymore that can make changes and adjustments. But I think that's the biggest thing. These products are not free as a cost.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

So is there anything you can do about it other than um you had already mentioned earlier that you can change some of the settings on your on your phone, on the apps that you use, the location services. But typically, I think in order to use the app, first you have to agree to their terms of service, which I think only lawyers actually read. And most of the time you're just you're just volunteering that information when you click I accept. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

It's not a fair fight, let's be clear. Because not only is is the consumer agreeing to it, it's also powered by AI. So they know exactly how to talk to you, like these soft, hush tones when you're reading it or getting you to opt in, the bright colors, and everybody else is using that platform. I should too. I'm missing out the FOMO. So it's not fair, but I do think if the consumer cares about their privacy, then this might be something they should take more seriously. There are tools out there as well, like tools like Delete Me, uh no affiliation to my company at all, but that will go out there and try to delete uh anything about you that you don't want out there. It's an annual service, like that exists. Um, but when we actually do large-scale research, it's almost a generational divide. It seems like Gen Z and millennials are kind of just like privacy is dead, right? They know everything about me. It's okay. Whereas, like, but maybe the boomers and the greatest generations are like, you know, let's let's watch it on what you have uh about me. So it just depends. But I don't think you have to be so bilateral. I think there is a healthy medium where you can actually use products, but also care about your privacy as well.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Mr. Harrison, where do you see data collection in the future?

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Like right now, if I walked in the average person, I just before I even walked into your home, but let's not use you, let's use somebody else. Like, you have a ring on your front door that's owned by Amazon. You have a Samsung or Sony TV that has ACR, automatic content recognition that will basically listen to what you're saying, also remember every type in keystroke you type in looking for shows. You have Netflix and and hoohoo and Amazon Prime that are tracking everything. Amazon's matching your purchases and your renting with your purchasing with Ring, which they own. And then you may have a refrigerator that's a smart refrigerator, you have your Wi-Fi in your house, you have an Alexa speaker. I mean, and that's just getting started. Let's not talk about your Wi-Fi. Everything is listening to you and I and trying to give you, you know, something. And now, you know, we see these new robots that are coming, the Neo robot that just got announced a couple weeks ago that will be in your house and clean your house and do your floors, but also listen to every single thing you say. So I think the future is it's gonna get even more intrusive in exchange for your comfort. And is that an exchange you're willing to make? I think it up to every individual person.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Now, uh since since you mentioned that, there have been a lot of rumors and talk about Facebook listening in on personal conversations, even when you're not using the app. And of course, Meta declines that that's that that's happening. And that may be correct, but as you just pointed out, something is listening, and that but then and then that something that is listening, then they reach out to you through Facebook. Is that one possible scenario?

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Yeah, so the I think we've all had this scenario where it's like I was talking about something and then I saw an ad about it in Facebook. I swear I didn't search it. How the heck did they know? And so most of these products have what's called a wake word, right? Alexa, hey Google. Like these are turn it on. But remember, it has to listen for that word in the first place. So it is listening. I mean, they don't deny. I think even Siri um got in a lawsuit and they settled uh recently. So this happens. Of course, they're going to deny it. I don't know specifically what Meta is or isn't doing, but what I do encourage people to do is go to the App Store, go to the Google Play Store, look at the nutrition label, and you'll see that it does have access to your microphones. I don't think we have to be afraid. I think we should hopefully allow data to work for us, just not against us, and kind of be empowered by it, especially if you're a business owner or you're someone trying to promote yourself.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Well, Walter Harrison, thank you so much for spending time with me today in the listening tube. I really appreciate it. And I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I hope you have too.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Thanks, Bob.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Thanks for the invite. Glad to be here. Put Walter Harrison's data to work for you at WhoCameby.com. As a media advertising consultant, I can tell you that there are many ways data can help you understand people in general and purchasing habits. The listening tube is written and produced by yours truly. Copyright 2025. Now heard in 74 countries around the world. Thank you for putting your ear to the listening tube. I'm your host, Bob Woodley, for Val at Infinitem.