The Listening Tube with Bob Woodley--The future of Iran with Zolal Habibi

SPEAKER_03 0:00

This is the listening tube.

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Hello. Thank you for putting your ear to the listening tube. I'm your host, Bob Woodley. On this episode, we'll hear from Zola Habibi, spokeswoman for the Foreign Affairs Committee of the National Council of Resistance of Iran.

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But first, not the headlines.

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As I'm sure you know, the United States and Israel have teamed up to attack military and administrative targets of the Iranian government. On one side of the coin, we have people questioning why President Trump, a man who claims to be a man of peace, is starting a war with Iran. They claim it's a case of the tail wagging the dog, the tail being Israel, the dog being the United States. It's a fun analogy to make, but I think we all know who's calling the shots here. And wondering why Donald Trump would attack Iran is a legitimate question. On the other side of the coin are those who see this as the end of a war that began in 1979. When, during the Iranian Revolution that put the most recent regime in charge, they took American hostages and held them in captivity for 444 days, only releasing them as Ronald Reagan was being sworn in as President of the United States. Unfortunately for Iran, they didn't change their behavior when Donald Trump became President of the United States, and now Iran is being called to pay the piper. The U.S. held out an olive branch in return for an end to Iran's nuclear ambitions. But they balked and they stalled. And after 47 years of Iran killing Americans and chanting Death to America, the United States has a president who feels it's time to end the war against it.

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You can hang your hat on that.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Whether you agree with the premise or who's conducting the orchestra, the timing couldn't be much better. Perhaps if the current conditions existed during the administration of a past president of the U.S., it would have happened then. But the current conditions never occurred before. Granted, the current conditions didn't happen by accident. Iran's military was decimated in June. Then the people revolted because of an economic crisis that the Iranian government hasn't been able to correct. Iran's proxies like Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis have been neutralized for the most part. But without Iran's money and support, they too will wither on the vine, save for the most radical, who will probably end up dead, knowing what the abilities of the Israelis and Americans are when it comes to pinpoint precision and intelligence. The weakened state of the Iranian regime and the consistent display of its citizens to show their willingness to sacrifice everything for freedom from the theocracy of the Imam created the ideal conditions for a chance at real peace in the Middle East. Let's face it, Iran is the lone holdout. Since the Abraham Accords and other related agreements created peace and cooperation between Israel and many Arab countries, as well as peace among Arab countries that had independent disagreements. With the terrorist regime of Iran out of the way, there's an unprecedented chance for not just peace in the Middle East, but true prosperity for those who have been ruled by religious extremists in the name of Islam. This attack on Iran by the United States and Israel isn't just an attack on a ruthless regime that slaughtered tens of thousands of its own citizens just months ago, and has killed more American service members than any other country in the last 47 years. But it's also an historic moment in world history. The geopolitical blueprint will be redone to the benefit of most of the world. Yet there are still those, other than the people in power in Iran, who have a problem with it. They do all they can to make it seem like it's a bad thing, and that it shouldn't have happened. And if you believe in your heart that it's a bad thing, then you're free to believe that if you live in the United States of America. But why would you believe that? Maybe it's because of the news you get.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Well, that can't be right.

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Because I try to stay abreast of the news, I follow a lot of different organizations that do reporting, including the common ones like the Associated Press, CNN, and all the networks. I don't monitor them like I would if I got paid for it, but you could call it more than a casual interest. I've been disappointed by what I've seen from ABC News the most. Any negative story they can dream up about the actual events, or even better, hypotheticals remotely related to the actual events are the story of the hour from ABC News. Doom and gloom are the order of the day when it comes to ABC's reporting on the events and what may come next. One report from Roxana Sabari, who was reportedly held by Iranian authorities at one time, claims there's little chance of regime change, and that citizens in Tehran are more afraid of what she claims are missiles falling all around them than anything else. She doesn't mention that those missiles are probably Iranian missiles gone off course rather than the pinpoint accurate missiles of the United States. He made it look like Republicans are the bad guys if they rejected the idea that the President is commander-in-chief of the armed forces. Even the headlines are meant to deceive. Here's one ground troops, not part of the plan, Levitt says. Trump to attend dignified transfer of killed service members. That's certainly news, and an unfortunate part of a president's responsibilities. Next, marine traffic through the Strait of Hormuz reduced by 90%. Foreign service unions blast lack of American leadership in Middle East, and 940 killed in Iran. Iranian Red Crescent Society. All legitimate news stories, but all negative. Nothing about how the accuracy of American weapons keep civilian casualties to a minimum. While Iran's rockets and missiles are landing in and hitting civilian targets. Only how the citizens there are terrorized by their own government's rockets falling out of the sky without telling you whose rockets they are. Is it because ABC would then have to admit they know what a woman is? It's the same thought process of the left-wing politicians. Find a way to make an historic leap forward for freedom and peace a bad idea. Put a negative spin on it, no matter how much benefit it might be for the world and many of the individual countries on it. Never mind the potential for a world we haven't seen in hundreds of years when it comes to peace and cooperation among former adversaries. That's what's at stake here. And the American legacy media and all but one Democrat in the Senate, John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, want you to protest against it. By the way, one Republican senator voted for the act to restrict the president's powers in this event, and that was Kentucky Senator Rand Paul. To no one's surprise. Most of the people who have an immediate interest in what happens in Iran, namely the people who live there and the diaspora around the world, have positive feelings about the decimation of the military powers of the Iranian regime. In Los Angeles, California, where one of, if not the largest group of Iranian expats live, there were celebrations in the streets when it was announced that the Ayatollah had been killed. Yes, some newsrooms were discouraged from reporting it. Why? Why was it so important for the students at UCLA and USC to free Palestine, but not Iran? But I digress. Sorry, Booth Announcer Lady. No time for that.

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The listening tube will return at the speed of sound. Send email to thelistening tube at outlook.com.

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My guest is a spokeswoman for the Foreign Affairs Committee of the National Council of Resistance of Iran. Zolal Habibi has up close knowledge of what's happening in Iran and how the future there might unfold. Zolal spent some time with me in the listening tube from their headquarters in Paris. You are my first repeat guest on the listening tube. So congratulations for that. But thank you for taking the time to speak with me under these extraordinary conditions. What are your top-line thoughts on the shocking news of the attack on Iran by the United States and Israel?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

First of all, it's a pleasure to be with you again, Bob, and thank you for having me. And especially in these very critical times, as you just noted, the reality is that we have entered a um a new phase. And it is a very critical time for the people of Iran and the Iranian resistance. I think that the reality is, as I probably mentioned in our previous previous talks and interview, I think the solution to Iran is not foreign war, but it's also not appeasement because unfortunately democracy can't be installed. And we are seeing that, I mean, currently, just in if you look in the last few days, how extensively this is spreading. And it's not just limited now to Iran, because there's Iran's reaction and retaliation too. And we are seeing that people are becoming, you know, victims of this both inside of Iran and in neighboring countries. And you know, the devastations of war, it's the damage that you can't just call it collateral damage. It's you know, human lives and the situation, especially when you're up against a regime who is so brutal that it's willing to have its own people killed to be able to keep itself afloat. Um, but there has been a turning point, I think, in the history of Iran. After 37 years, Kemini uh has been eliminated. And um, this is the start of a new chapter for the people of Iran. But I think what is very important to note and for the world to realize is that the people of Iran uh they are the ones who have to eventually decide on uh what path is taken and what is the you know new government in Iran or how this, you know, how this regime is overthrown. Uh the overthrow of the regime is up to the people of Iran, and it is something that the people of Iran have sacrificed a great deal for, and they they understand the implications of that. We had an Iran despite knowing the risk and the cost, and it cost thousands and thousands of lives. But the people of Iran came to the streets in defiance, and they have continued to resist in all forms possible. Uh, we saw it in the morning ceremonies um held across Iran honoring those who were killed by the regime in Persian culture or in Iran. Uh, there's a culture that uh 40 days after the passing of someone, they hold a ceremony or a memorial for them. And those memorials all turned to a scene of defiance, resistance, and to make a pledge with all those who have been killed that their path is going to be continued and their lives were not lost in vain. And we also saw the activities of resistance units just in the past you know few days, like five days actually before uh the start of the war, we witnessed 250 members of resistance units carried out a operation in Tehran in broad daylight, targeting the headquarters of Harmeni, um, Postor, where it was uh attacked um on Saturday. But the people of Iran actually took that step themselves first. Um, but the reality is that their hands have been tied in the past. Uh, right now I think it is time for the international community to allow the people of Iran to bring about that change and to recognize the Iranian people's fight on one hand, but also um recognize the transitional government, which the provisional government that has been announced by Mrs. Bajavi, the president and act of the Iranian resistance.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Hello. The last time we spoke, you you did seem a little bit uneasy about a military intervention in Iran because it's such a big place, and it would be difficult to maintain any type of uh occupation there by a foreign force. But this approach is different, is it not? How how are you and your organization, the National Council of Resistance of Iran, interpreting the military action by the United States and Israel?

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Well, I think we still stand by our stance that the solution to Iran is night, it's not a foreign war. Um, we are seeing, as I said, I mean, there is one aspect of it that you see, like the elimination of you know certain heads of the regime or certain places that are being targeted, but there's also the other side of this coin, um, the implement the implications of this war for both civilians and the infrastructure of Iran, but also like the international community. I mean, right now practically every country in the region is being targeted by the Iranian regime as a retaliation to this war. So it is taking a very, it's very extensive, and we don't know where this is going. First, when they it started, they said that it's going to be like three, four days, five days. Then they said 10 days, now they're speaking of a month, but you know, you don't know where this is going, and it's there are no guarantees. So I think that um the reality is that, as I said, the people of Iran, they have that potential and capability to bring about change. Till now, what has stopped them has been the policy of appeasement and the fact that, like, for instance, you know, and those who actually stood in defiance of the regime, those who actually fought the regime through like armed struggle, they're the ones who were labeled as, you know, terrorists and this and that, and it wasn't accepted. But the reality is that this regime, the world has seen this regime is not a regime that's going to be overthrown with peaceful protests because it is so brutal and it's willing to, you know, um turn to whatever means to keep itself afloat. And that is what we need to um recognize and understand. And the Iranian regime understands that too, because the regime, yes, it has been a major blow to their existence, but they are worried about the final blow that comes from the people of Iran. They are planning attacks after they hit, uh, as you may be aware, yesterday, the Iranian regime hit um Cyprus too. After that, they've been speaking about the fact that this was a test to then be able to target Albania, because that is where the Iranian resistance is based, and that is their main target. So uh we're also seeing the fact that you know political prisoners have been transferred from Iran prison. Uh the War 209, uh, everyone has been transferred to unknown known location. The Iranian regime has said time and time again, if we feel that we're about to, you know, we're on the verge of falling, we're going to have all those political prisoners eliminated. And they just on Sunday, we also saw the transfer of some prisoners to be used or detainees to be used as human shields. So, you know, we have to understand the greater impact of war two. Uh, the reality is that I still stand by the fact that, I mean, if you look at our history in the last hundred years, you have to understand Iranians have not had a good experience with foreign intervention because all of the dictators were installed by foreign governments, and that is not what we want. We want the Iranian people to be able to take their destiny into their own hands and form their own future. To best answer your question, I think Mr. Bajabi has given about three statements since the start of the war, and it really gives you a guideline of how to move forward and what needs to be done. And I think that those are key in these um critical times.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Now, here in the United States, we were pretty much given the heads up that this would last anywhere from four to six weeks, perhaps longer. Um, it is significant that Iran was able to hit Cyprus with a rocket that is the first European territory that was uh targeted by the Iranian regime. Now, as far as what's happening inside Iran, should the citizens of Iran be issued weapons.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Well, that is actually what the people of Iran are doing themselves right now. And that is the positive note that I'd like to address in the aftermath of the start of the war. We saw that on Saturday uh on Sunday, actually, resistance units in uh who serve as the National Liberation Army of Iran, they were able to actually carry out attacks in different areas against regime suppressive forces. Um, like for instance, in Hashged in Karaj, uh, they were able to attack one of the barracks and they were able to actually disarm them, and they were able to arm the people to. able to defend themselves in face of that and also the there's a play there's an entity in the regime they call it the executive headquarters of imam's order which imam means Khomeini for short they call it IKO and that was also it's in charge of the plunder of the Iranian people and so that was also targeted and so that was also their goods were distributed among the people and um we also saw the prison of Mad Ivan and also Mahabad which are in the western part of Iran the Kurdish area of Iran which were um attacked by by the people and they were able to actually have all the political prisoners set free and the detainees from those areas set free and this is a new precedent that is being set and I think that is really important and that's where what people are targeting now these days we also see uh mobilization on the ground by the resistance units um by the people um to be able to take the fight to the next level obviously the central command and control of the Iranian regime has been eliminated certain people have stepped up into some of those roles but is there widespread concern notwithstanding the rockets that the Iranian regime has already fired but what about Iranian tentacles around the world being activated in and like uh what they call sleeper cells in retaliation for the military actions of the U.S.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

and Israel do you have major concerns about about these cells popping up around the world in trying to exact revenge for the regime?

SPEAKER_01 23:51

I think that that is something that is likely and it matches the nature of the regime. I think that it will probably depend a lot on how they perceive the situation to be um if they see the regime um has a chance to stay afloat or not so I think we will have to wait and see for that but I think that internationally I think many countries are on high alert in this regard because the Iranian regime does have is the number one state sponsor of international terrorism. So they're not just going to sit by and watch but we have to see what that retaliation is going to look like. Is it just in the form of military that we are seeing right now or if it's going to be something more extensive. And also I think that knowing the nature of this regime of course they are going to target as I said mostly the Iranian opposition probably and this is something that we we have seen the precedent like I mean in 2009 at the height of the uprisings the regime had at the behest of the regime Ashraf was attacked back then in Iraq because at the time the Iranian resistance was based in Iraq so it was just across the border and it was a very short distance and the regime knew that you know they are ready for that moment. And so that's why they would be targeted in 2011 when the Arab Spring broke out again the Iranian resistance was targeted and then again and again in 2013 then 14 15 16 um anytime that the regime felt the situation was critical you could tell because exactly that is when the Iranian resistance would be attacked. This is something that if you even look go back a bit you will see it in in what happened in 1988 and everything from in the 1980s the Iranian regime I think always gives the address of its the main threat that it faces and uh it knows better than anyone else who its main enemies are and what serves as a threat to its existence. What surprises you most the outpouring of support from Iranian expatriates around the world or the early reluctance of the European Union to support the move by the Americans and the Israelis I don't think either one is something that was a surprise um I think that there are Iranians who considering that Khomeini has been eliminated yes they are happy are they worried about the war yes they are are there some who you know just see this as the only solution yes there are but they're very um a very limited faction and that's mostly the monarchists um but the reality is that you know everyone is worried about the you know what comes with a war and I think that that is completely justified also the reluctance is understandable too because no one wants a war I mean that's that's the reality are there are there going to be a lot of ups and downs in this whole path of course there will be but I think right now what is most important is to keep the eye on what the um goal is uh the reality is that I mean um when the war started they made clear that this is in regards to or in response to the regime's nuclear and missile programs which are programs that the Iranian resistance exposed three decades ago but it's very important that all parties involved exercise the utmost care to prevent any harm to the Iranian people and um the country's civil infrastructure and I think that this was you know again I would like to point to the message that was given by Mrs. Rajavy Mrs. Rajavi on Saturday introduced the announced actually the um the provisional government for the transfer of sovereignty to the people of Iran um for a secular democratic republic in Iran based on the 10-point plan. And in that message I think that she outlined a few points that are very key and they put a they put things into perspective. It is a very thin line I think that we're walking on right now but it's really important to understand like where things need to go and what is the solution to be able to move forward from this point on.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

You did describe to us in our previous conversation some of those part the parts of that 10-point plan. And the woman to whom you're referring to now she is the leader of the National Council of the resistance of Iran correct? Yes exactly I hear a lot of talk about what will happen in Iran next if the people there are able to rise up and take control of the country is your organization the NCRI in contention for a seat at the table or are there other forces at work behind the scenes because all I really hear about in Western media is I hear the Crown Prince talking, I hear um what's you know what's going to happen, but I never hear anything about the National Council of resistance of Iran. Yet you are in effect a parliament in exile waiting for this moment.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

So where does your organization stand and are you ready to assume that role if called upon I think the NTR is ready to assume that role but not if they're called upon um I think this is something that needs to be created by the people of Iran and that is exactly where we differ from uh those who want the return of the you know the remnants of the Shah the reality is the people of Iran revolted for a reason in 1979. They threw monarchy in the trash and finished it in in Persian history. It is time to understand that and that that is something that really bothers Iranians the fact that you know there are those foreign interests who want to see a puppet government in Iran and so they go behind Reza Pahib. And the term crowned prince I mean that in itself is just wrong because there's no shot for him to be the crown prince you know that just doesn't you know match. And the fact that his I mean you know the hypocrisy in his messaging he keeps on saying I don't want to have anything to do with you know power um I just want to lead the transition we could talk about we're not talking about titles here let's talk about that later but then he everywhere he goes he uses the title crowned prince and if you look at even their demonstrations that they had just two weeks ago the only slogan that was chanted nothing against Khamenei nothing in regards to the executions in Iran nothing about those who were killed in Iran it was only long live the king Jabit Shah and they're threatening people either you say this or you have to deal with us. That is the fascism the fascist nature that they have and they're showing it they're presenting it in their Iranian community and not in their Western communications. So it's really important to understand the nature of what he represents what he stands for. The reality is that for him um I think he he pointed out to something very good actually in Fox news on Sunday he said for me to go to Iran it needs to be orchestrated well exactly that is the issue it needs to be orchestrated because he doesn't have any kind of structure any organizational structure nothing so what are you going to do? If you look at the plan that after 47 years he decided to give a plan in July of this year if you look at that plan it's a blueprint for a dictatorship something worse than his father he's calling for the revival of the Savak the revival of the eternal guards which would be replacing the IRGC so the same it's the same entity just changing its names and the same thing that Khomeini did he kept Slovak and just changed the name to Vevok and now the same thing and you know the fact that just last week he made clear threats against the Iranian Kurds and ethnicities and this is something that Iranians are not taking lightly and they are taking seriously the reality is I um if I want to criticize the Western media is why are you giving so much airtime to someone who the people of Iran clearly don't want he is being with through manipulation through doctoring videos they're trying to show like he has some kind of a support but the reality is that he has never been able to form an organization that lasts for six months how can he run a country as complex as Iran and who are his parliament in exile or you know cabinet in exile or whatever who are they and who how does he plan on doing that he has not worked a day in his life what does he plan on doing and he has said numerously that I am not willing to sacrifice my own freedoms for the freedom of others my life has been in the US for for the for half a century and whatnot. So leaders are supposed to be leading in sacrifice in the risk that they take he is not that person and it's very important to realize that and to understand that. And I think to address that I mean those who have lived in the DC area know that he has been living a lavish life in Potomac in Great Falls for you know decades now without working a day in his life without having any kind of plan without doing anything for the people of Iran and you know you have to understand that and there's a lot of videos actually circulating right now in social media unfortunately it's mostly in varsity social media and maybe that's something that we need to work on to be able to show it to the Western world too but how he changes his position with the wind. Like there are videos of him he's like talking against any kind of foreign intervention because that was the issue that Iranians cared about. And then now that he's saying the only solution is foreign intervention. He contradicts himself time and time and again even when questioned he's offended by the fact that people ask him like well what is your position on how your dad governed and the atrocities that your dad committed he has never addressed that because he he doesn't believe that his what his dad did was wrong. And in fact he was actually defending it and said my father left the country before turning to bloodshed and that's not true. His father killed till the minute he could but at a time that he realized that even through killing he's not going to be able to keep himself afloat that is when he left so we have you know the victims are still you know the families are still alive the victims of torture from samak are still alive you can't deny those things that happened 53 years his father and grandfather ruled Iran through suppression through mass killings and that is not something that's forgotten by the people of Iran or by history for those who try to whitewash it now and try to present him at you know in a with a rosy lens that is not the reality and that is not what the people of Iran the people of Iran do not want someone to be installed. We don't want another chalabi in our country especially because we have organized resistance we have a resistance that has withstood the test of time which has dedicated people who have dedicated decades of their lives to the cause of freedom in Iran we see right now even today like for instance right now you see Kurdish forces who are fighting the regime you see the Baloch who are fighting the regime you see resistance units throughout Iran who are fighting this regime they're paying the price on day-to-day basis they're not doing that for someone to come and be installed who's going to who from now is making threats against their existence. And that's even something Khomeini didn't even do before arriving to Iran but he's doing it now. So it's very important I think for everyone to understand and you know shed some light on the realities of who he is and what he stands for. And the reality is that no we do not want the return of a dick you know a dictator we don't want the return of a hereditary monarchy in Iran based on what parents in the first place um it's it's a you know dividing force among Iranians it's not a unifying force among Iranians and that is something that needs to be recognized in February we saw them chanting the slogans of one flag, one country one leader which you know for those who know history a bit that is exactly the slogan that you know belonged to Hitler and the fact that he is repeating that and actually propagating that that is something that should be alarm bells for everyone around the world this is what he is standing for this is what he's they're promoting and this needs to I mean in our day and age we need to stand in front of the growth of neofascism be it in Iran or anywhere else. Zolal when will we know and when I say we I mean the whole world when will we know that the old regime in Iran is gone and a new chapter of Iranian history is about to begin when this regime is overthrown in its complete entirety um there is no reform within this regime because right now there that is one of the things that I think President Trump actually addressed yesterday like you know someone from within the the system no this system has to go completely and that is uh the day that we will see a true truly free Iran and it will be up to the people of Iran to decide right to you know how to move forward um next but what we see as the solution is a provisional six month government to be able to hold elections for constitutional assembly to put together the new constitution and then be able to have free elections um to where direct actually elections where people can vote for that constitution and finalize that constitution and then to be able to have uh elections for you know choosing the next president or prime minister or however that system is if you'd like to stay aware of what's happening in Iran you can find more information at Maryamrajavi4change.com or n cr-aran dot org thank you to Zolal Habibi for spending some time with me and the listening tube the listening tube is written and produced by yours truly copyright 2026 shout out to some new places checking in Henderson Nevada Benton Louisiana and over Massachusetts and Manila the Philippines Thank you for putting your ear to the listening tube follow the listening tube at thelisteningtube.com I'm your host Bob Woodley for Val Ad Infinitum